End of Season Events

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End of Season Events

Postby zekumar » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:22 pm

Hi!

As a recent joiner to FtP, I'm just going through the end-of-season processing for the first time, and a couple of things have happened that I wasn't expecting.

The sideways shuffle
In two of the three leagues, my teams were in the pack, qualifying for neither promotion nor relegation, so I was expecting them to remain in the same divisions into season 38. While my teams remained at the same level, they were shunted sideways into different divisions. Looking at old league tables, it would appear that this is normal practice in FtP; I can't recall seeing this happen in any other gaming environnment (nor in "real life", whatever that is).

The non-relegation
In the remaining league, my team was eighth when I took over, and stayed there to the end, so I was expecting to be relegated, but this didn't happen. Almost all of the teams at the next level down are computer-controlled, so I suspect there's a rule that a c-c team will not promote if this would cause a human-controlled side to be relegated.

Can I suggest that these things ought to be mentioned in the Game Manual, in the League Structure section of the Competitions page?

Regards,

zekumar
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Re: End of Season Events

Postby GM-crowfan65 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:58 am

Both of your points are caused by the same thing 'the bot flush'

All teams are demoted and promoted even if the are bots or comp controlled as you call them
After that all those teams are then 'fllushed' to the bottom and human teams pushed up
In your case as you are in Scotland lower leagues it would appear you didn't demote
As you go up the leagues that won't necesarily be the case

Hope that helps
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Re: End of Season Events

Postby zekumar » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:56 am

Brother Crowfan,

Thanks for replying.

I can see that the bot-flush would explain my second point, the apparent non-relegation, but I don't see the connection to my first, the sideways shuffle of teams that are neither promoting nor relegating.

I still think things like these ought to be documented in the manual, so people know to expect them.

Regards,

zekumar
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Re: End of Season Events

Postby GM-crowfan65 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:59 am

Every side is ranked based on div, ladder positiion, wins, nrr
So you get a list numbered 1 to whatever number of teams are in the country
They are placed in leagues thus

Div 1.1 : 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Div 2.1 : 9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23
Div 2.2 : 10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24
Div 3.1 :25,29,33,37 etc etc

This is all done as part of the bot flush
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Re: End of Season Events

Postby Hellbound81 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:01 pm

The sideways shuffle is to create more balanced leagues and to freshen up matchups to not always play the same opponents.
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Re: End of Season Events

Postby MOD-DanAndrew » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:57 pm

GM-crowfan65 wrote:Every side is ranked based on div, ladder positiion, wins, nrr
So you get a list numbered 1 to whatever number of teams are in the country
They are placed in leagues thus

Div 1.1 : 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Div 2.1 : 9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23
Div 2.2 : 10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24
Div 3.1 :25,29,33,37 etc etc

This is all done as part of the bot flush


Is that right or is it points?
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Re: End of Season Events

Postby GM-crowfan65 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:10 pm

yes it is pts but in effect that is wins for the most part
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Re: End of Season Events

Postby MOD-DanAndrew » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:16 pm

GM-crowfan65 wrote:yes it is pts but in effect that is wins for the most part


Ah good, I know I was being picky there but I'd just made a spreadsheet for it so wanted to make sure it was right!
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Re: End of Season Events

Postby danivapot » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:00 pm

MOD-DanAndrew wrote:
GM-crowfan65 wrote:Every side is ranked based on div, ladder positiion, wins, nrr
So you get a list numbered 1 to whatever number of teams are in the country
They are placed in leagues thus

Div 1.1 : 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Div 2.1 : 9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23
Div 2.2 : 10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24
Div 3.1 :25,29,33,37 etc etc

This is all done as part of the bot flush


Is that right or is it points?


Not sure about this explanation. Look at Ireland 50 over division 3, My relegated team Sawtry from div 2 and Dragon Warriors were head and shoulders above all other division 3 teams in the ratings. I was highest ranked at conclusion of last season with Dragon Warriors 2nd highest (they are now stronger with me 2nd), yet we've been drawn in the same league. This means ony 1 team that are actually strong enough to play and stand a chance of surviving in Division 2 can go up whilst the 3 others will go straight down unless they have/will buy players.
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Re: End of Season Events

Postby MOD-DanAndrew » Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:13 pm

Match ratings has nothing to do with what division you are put in to. I had the same a few years back where there were 4 teams rating around 220k in div 3 in the Netherlands.

Yeah it's annoying from a personal point of view but I don't see it as particularly unfair.
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Re: End of Season Events

Postby danivapot » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:15 pm

I disagree, it should be based on match ratings, basing it on wins, nrr etc allows for unfair advantages to be had.

I agree with the numeric method quoted previously to a agree.

Match rating is a fair way has your dealing with data as set out by the player.

Nett run rate is effected by exterior issues, teams that start bot and get taken over by new players and vice verse, giving an advantage to some but not all and wins have already had their effect due to your promotion/relegation and prize money.

I would have division settled by end of season national rankings (overall)

Div 1 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Div 2 1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15
2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16
Div3 1,5,9,13,17,21,25,29
2,6,10,14,18,22,26,30
3,7,11,15,19,23,27,31
4,8,12,16,20,24,28,32
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Re: End of Season Events

Postby MOD-DanAndrew » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:25 pm

So what if a team beats a side he outrated and wins promotion, the side wouldn't gain anything?

The main aim of this game is to win games, not to create the best team on paper. Match ratings can easily be inflated by ARs aswell, we would end up with every bowler being an AR which would be ridiculous.
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Re: End of Season Events

Postby Smiddie » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:52 pm

MR ratings are a rough guide on strength but it 100% doesn't mean they are a better team.
You could play 5 world class finger spinners on a green/humid deck and out rate your opponent by 40k I still suspect you to lose as you were not the better team.

MR also doesn't factor in trigger talents on all players. But it could make the difference in a close rating game.

Match ratings shouldnt be used.

And what ever system you propose will see teams throw matches or lower the ratings to make them seem weaker come EOS so they try to get that weaker division so they have an easier path for promotion.
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Re: End of Season Events

Postby Torpedo10 » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:29 am

I wouldn't mind rankings being used to order teams in each Division separately, but using them to order who is in what division is flat out ridiculous.
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Re: End of Season Events

Postby Hellbound81 » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:44 am

Keep in mind that team ratings change all the time.

Some teams develop young players which improve each week.

Some teams rely on old players which decline each week.

Others use combinations.

Using team ratings is just too inconsistent to base a ranking system on and besides, managers are always able to improve their teams by buying better players if they need to be more competitive in their leagues.
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