T20 - the toss debate

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PaulJP57
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T20 - the toss debate

Post by PaulJP57 » Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:51 am

Congratulations to India on their 3-2 victory in the T20 series versus England. Hopefully the last two results will stop the debate about "win the toss, win the game" that seems to be endlessly talked about by the Sky commentators.

The series was a great advert for the Indian batsmen and they have some hard choices to make in deciding their line-up for the World Cup. KIshan and Yadav certainly announced themselves and the upcoming IPL should be worth watching just for these two alone.

Meanwhile the English bowlers will have to take a hard look at their last two performances. You can't just keep serving up the same method of attack because good batsmen, which India certainly had, will adapt very quickly especially in a five match series.

Hopefully lessons will be learnt and the ODIs will be competitive. My only request is that they bowl the overs quicker because the fourth T20 lasted for four and a quarter hours, which equates to 10 overs per hour. So much for the "shorter form" of the game!

Chepu
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Re: T20 - the toss debate

Post by Chepu » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:17 pm

yeah the over rate in the series was a pain to watch. And they only got sanctioned for it in the 4th game. There should have been more sanctions to speed things up. At this rate the ODIs might go on for over 10 hours
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PaulJP57
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Re: T20 - the toss debate

Post by PaulJP57 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:20 am

Chepu wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:17 pm
yeah the over rate in the series was a pain to watch. And they only got sanctioned for it in the 4th game. There should have been more sanctions to speed things up. At this rate the ODIs might go on for over 10 hours
So far in the 1st ODI it has taken England 3 hours 15 minutes to bowl 40 overs. The rules of Test cricket meant that they would have bowled the 50 by now. The various cricket boards need to speak to the teams about this because spectators will be switching off through boredom.

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Re: T20 - the toss debate

Post by Chepu » Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:21 pm

4 hours 15 minutes in the innings If India take that much time too then not too far off my 10 hour prediction (adding 45 minutes for the innings break)
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Re: T20 - the toss debate

Post by MOD-wmchamps » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:35 pm

The over-rate is a concern so hopefully it is addressed soon before the loss of spectators and viewers.
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quirkilyalive
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Re: T20 - the toss debate

Post by quirkilyalive » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:18 am

Like the deduction of points in the WTC, I feel limited overs game also need a slow overrate penalty that effects the game(or points table), rather than monetary punishments.

This was a wacky idea I had read somewhere, would love to know more people's thoughts about this:

If team 1, whilst bowling could just bowl 47 overs in their allotted time, then they would get 47 overs only to chase the score down.

Example(because my explanation is horrendous)

India bowl first, and England score 280 off 47 overs in the allotted time, then England total 300 of their 50 overs in total. Then, India will have to chase 301 runs in 47 overs, was basically the idea. Wasn't the biggest fan of the idea, but something like this might help?
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GA-James018
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Re: T20 - the toss debate

Post by GA-James018 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:35 am

The issue I have always had with penalising teams for poor over rates is that often it is not just the fielding team's fault. They normally take the majority of the blame, sure, but the batsmen can contribute too by calling long mid-pitch conferences, taking a long time to take their guard, calling for drinks and so on. I suspect that is why ideas like cutting short the number of overs the chasing side have to chase (which I think was actually tried in the past) don't work. The side batting first can easily take advantage of that, and it's hard for the match referee to make a decision on how many overs are lost in the very short time between innings.

I'd like to see, if possible, some better tracking of what delays in play led to the over rate slowing down, and which ones can be attributed to the batsmen, the fielding side, and unavoidable circumstances. Then, if the over rate is short, either or both sides get penalised proportionally to their responsibility.
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Re: T20 - the toss debate

Post by quirkilyalive » Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:11 am

Agreed. If a match referee were to take calls on overrating and who should be penalised to what margins, that might help. The fact that it isn't always the fielding team's fault if the over rates are slow has been my problem as well. Earlier, if the over rates were slow, the fielding captain got penalised, and banned for a match or two at some stages(if they had enough points against them, that is) and the batting teams can easily misuse that.
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plumber525
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Re: T20 - the toss debate

Post by plumber525 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:32 pm

Over rates should probably be a separate thread as, I reckon it would run and run, but since we're on it:

Strong, empowered umpires.

If it's not a drinks break, get the twelth's off the field! Batsmen don't get to have a break every 5 overs just 'cause it's hot. If they as professional athletes can't perform in the heat then they need to work harder on their conditioning.

No drinks for the fielding side at the fall of a wicket - get the twelth's off the field!

No drinks on the field when a batsman needs some new gloves/bat handle grip/whatever other excuse they'll try to get drinks in.

Umpires with a spine and the knowledge they'll be backed up by the ICC will speed up over rates no end IMO.

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Re: T20 - the toss debate

Post by Klauts » Sat May 01, 2021 4:00 am

plumber525 wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:32 pm
Over rates should probably be a separate thread as, I reckon it would run and run, but since we're on it:

Strong, empowered umpires.

If it's not a drinks break, get the twelth's off the field! Batsmen don't get to have a break every 5 overs just 'cause it's hot. If they as professional athletes can't perform in the heat then they need to work harder on their conditioning.

No drinks for the fielding side at the fall of a wicket - get the twelth's off the field!

No drinks on the field when a batsman needs some new gloves/bat handle grip/whatever other excuse they'll try to get drinks in.

Umpires with a spine and the knowledge they'll be backed up by the ICC will speed up over rates no end IMO.
Just so I understand the version of the game for the sufferers of adhd syndrome isn’t quick enough for them to keep their attention span? That’s why we have 10/10 now.

plumber525
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Re: T20 - the toss debate

Post by plumber525 » Sun May 02, 2021 9:15 am

Klauts wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 4:00 am
plumber525 wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:32 pm
Over rates should probably be a separate thread as, I reckon it would run and run, but since we're on it:

Strong, empowered umpires.

If it's not a drinks break, get the twelth's off the field! Batsmen don't get to have a break every 5 overs just 'cause it's hot. If they as professional athletes can't perform in the heat then they need to work harder on their conditioning.

No drinks for the fielding side at the fall of a wicket - get the twelth's off the field!

No drinks on the field when a batsman needs some new gloves/bat handle grip/whatever other excuse they'll try to get drinks in.

Umpires with a spine and the knowledge they'll be backed up by the ICC will speed up over rates no end IMO.
Just so I understand the version of the game for the sufferers of adhd syndrome isn’t quick enough for them to keep their attention span? That’s why we have 10/10 now.
What? I'm talking about over rates in general. I have no love for T20 but the discussion, as far as I could tell, had moved to over rates in the ODIs and I have made comments on that and indeed First Class as well.

Klauts
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Re: T20 - the toss debate

Post by Klauts » Sun May 02, 2021 10:13 am

What I read was someone saying cricket was too slow and answered that

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Re: T20 - the toss debate

Post by GA-James018 » Mon May 03, 2021 3:18 am

Too slow, as in the games aren't finishing in the time that they're allotted - not that they're too long, specifically.

For me, the most galling thing about poor over rates is that, in Test matches, they often cause overs to be lost from the day's play. I want to see 90 overs of play, not 86 or however many.
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Re: T20 - the toss debate

Post by GM-crowfan65 » Mon May 03, 2021 8:37 am

Its like the look for excuses to allow them to bowl less overs and even give them 30mins more these days
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